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Permlink Replies: 120 - Last Post: Sep 5, 2008 10:19 AM Last Post By: MelFamy
Laura21


Posts: 160
McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 8:39 AM
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There is heavy speculation that the choice will be Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/08/29/mccain-to-name-running-mate-on-friday/

It appears that her family has headed for Ohio where I think McCain is going to make the announcement.
MelFamy


Posts: 2,563
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 8:46 AM   in response to: Laura21 in response to: Laura21
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They should pick the veep Trump-style, on TV. It might actually stay a secret longer.
manitou8

Posts: 2,411
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 9:01 AM   in response to: Laura21 in response to: Laura21
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Hmmmmmmm..... Well I think our own Deer, :-) sweet, Gloria would be a powerful audition to the Republicant Presidential Ticket. Or Maybe Ron From Orlando.... Does our friend Ron in Orlando have a brother named Tony Orlando? I think this could be a great opportunity for Career advancement Ron, just think of the odds against McCain being competent to finish even a single term... If his body holds up to the rigors of the job, His mind deteriorates just a little bit more, just like RWR, and [b]voila.... [/b] You could Demand the Alzheimer's test I suggested for McCAIN previously, and my friend Ron will be President! Oh my! Think of it Ron... This could be your ticket to success! Hey Did you ever see the movie [b]Being There[/b] with Peter sellers? Ron this could be you! How about it Mr. Orlando... [b]Run, Ronnie Run! [/b]

Just think of it friends,

Blessings

manitou8

Waltraut


Posts: 2,951
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 8:10 AM   in response to: manitou8 in response to: manitou8
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:( :( :( :( :( :(
manitou8

Posts: 2,411
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 2, 2008 2:18 PM   in response to: Waltraut in response to: Waltraut
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Traudy,
I have more class than to quote your dear friend "Sweet"Sandy, in my greeting. I am concerned by your libelous statements, and yes I do have documentation.

This Is at least my third attempt to initiate reconciliation with you for apparently having offended you. (Let the reader note,) I have also apologized publicly on this board for having offended you, and now ask to be forgiven.

In the spirit of Matthew 18 I implore you to cease your defamation and be reconciled with me as my sister in Christ Jesus!

Blessings,

manitou8

Gary Whitney

Posts: 1,438
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 2, 2008 2:38 PM   in response to: manitou8 in response to: manitou8
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Manitou I believe you are sincere in your desire to be forgiven and renew a relationship with Troudy.

The question is what do we do when we sincerely wish to renew a relationship and the other party isn't moving. Often the only way we can see movement is when we continue to make overtures and (even more importantly) change the actions that are causing the offense.

Over time, when the offended party is sure that you are sincere and the offense won't reoccur, there will be a reconciliation.
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 2, 2008 3:21 PM   in response to: Gary Whitney in response to: Gary Whitney
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And how do you reconcile when the party continues to offend? Sometimes it's not only the treatment of one's self that offends, but the treatment of others, as well.
Gary Whitney

Posts: 1,438
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 2, 2008 3:42 PM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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Well, I think there are too many answers to that one... so I guess I don't know.

The parable of the prodigal son tells me that there is no limit on the amount of time we are willing to wait till the person is ready to receive forgiveness. The answer Jesus gave us about how many times we have to be willing to forgive also applies-- wasn't it without limit?

On the other side, if a person is so lost in himself and is so unwilling to listen that he is affecting the community of believers we are called to remove him from the community.

Even when that happens I believe we are called to welcome him home if there is heart change.
ron in orlando


Posts: 2,132
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 2, 2008 2:46 PM   in response to: manitou8 in response to: manitou8
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I will break my new routine for THIS one.

Manitou said:

"...libelous statements...."

Not when they are anonymous and do not directly name you by your actual name. They are NOTHING.


"....apparently having offended you..."

Apparently? Like you didn't conceive of the notion?

PSHWAAA.

"I have more class than to quote your dear friend "Sweet"Sandy, in my greeting"

Let's see..... your kind of 'having more class' is suggesting that a 78 year old lady of German descent, who was a young teen in WW2 Germany and suffered through a terrible time, would want the 3rd Reich to return. Yeah...that's REAL classy. REAL, REAL classy.

With your kind of class, you would probably accuse a rape victim of deserving it.

Now sue me.


"libelous statements"

Don't try to make threatening innuendos here, Manitou. You don't know what you're talking about.

(back to ignore.)

manitou8

Posts: 2,411
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 2, 2008 5:03 PM   in response to: ron in orlando in response to: ron in orlando
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"I will break my new routine for THIS one."
[b]
Um well dude, maybe you don't comprehend such things, but my post was theological in nature and not legal. The solution I am seeking is Christian Reconciliation, and has nothing to do with the legal system. [/b] Perhaps you could ask either Hawg or Gramps to explain Matthew 18:15-17 to you. It is a remedy commanded when someone feels wronged within the body of Christ. Gramps or Hawg can explain it to you I am sure...

OK, [b]Ron, you've broken your word, AGAIN[/b],

now chill dude...
go sit in the corner,
calm down !


blessings


manitou8

Waltraut


Posts: 2,951
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 3:10 PM   in response to: manitou8 in response to: manitou8
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O sorry, Manitou. I just read your note. Missed the apologies. You are forgiven a long time ago. Are you by any chance a ELCA member? If so , ask any lady in your church, WELCA, about the great heart program they have. There is one Station called :THE FORGIVEN HEART." Let her explain to you what it means. It's too long for me to do it here. That is what I do, when I am upset with some one, or some one hurt me. I just heard about that program in October at a WELCA Convention. Was I glad. I finally could forgive some one , I was upset with for 3 years. Another long story.

You just write in a nice language your postings, and you have no problems with me, or with any one else. Deal? :).

Have a blessed rest of the day/
manitou8

Posts: 2,411
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 4:58 PM   in response to: Waltraut in response to: Waltraut
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Waltraut wrote:
[i]You just write in a nice language your postings, and you have no problems with me, or with any one else. Deal?[/i] end quote.

Oh, is that nice language German? :-)

Blessings

manitou8

Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 9:42 AM   in response to: Laura21 in response to: Laura21
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PALIN is the nomination according to NBC News.

Interesting choice, but I do not think it will help. It may even backfire.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 9:52 AM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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It's smart in the respect that Palin is building for herself the reputation McCain used to have -- as a person who has been willing to stand up against corruption in her own party. McCain is clearly going to try and contrast himself and Palin against Obama (who he will paint as not really having been a reformer) and Biden (Washington insider).

The risk is that Palin has no foreign policy credentials at all, and the most slender experience of any candidate on a national ticket in recent memory. Tim Pawlenty has a more substantive record than Palin does. So does Bobby Jindal for that matter. So does Mitt Romney. The pick risks looking like an overtly obvious attempt to pander to Clinton supporters . Does McCain really think that most Clinton supporters are so blinded by gender that they will vote for an anti-choice ticket?
Laura21


Posts: 160
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 11:18 AM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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It's smart in the respect that Palin is building for
herself the reputation McCain used to have -- as a
person who has been willing to stand up against
corruption in her own party. McCain is clearly going
to try and contrast himself and Palin against Obama
(who he will paint as not really having been a
reformer) and Biden (Washington insider).

The risk is that Palin has no foreign policy
credentials at all, and the most slender experience
of any candidate on a national ticket in recent
memory. Tim Pawlenty has a more substantive record
than Palin does. So does Bobby Jindal for that
matter. So does Mitt Romney. The pick risks looking
like an overtly obvious attempt to pander to Clinton
supporters . Does McCain really think that most
Clinton supporters are so blinded by gender that they
will vote for an anti-choice ticket?


I know Democratic men and women are pro-life so I don't think that's a problem for many.

I think she, as a Gov., balances McCain's ticket nicely for economics.

Don't have have to say more but I think she's a wonderful choice.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 11:21 AM   in response to: Laura21 in response to: Laura21
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I think she, as a Gov., balances McCain's ticket
nicely for economics.

What does she bring to the table there?
Laura21


Posts: 160
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 11:45 AM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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I think she, as a Gov., balances McCain's ticket
nicely for economics.

What does she bring to the table there?


Well a Gov. has to be constantly working to improve the states economy. Obama had to pick another Senator because he is weak on foreign affairs.
Laura21


Posts: 160
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 12:00 PM   in response to: Laura21 in response to: Laura21
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Palin is also a former business owner and she's a gun owner. It get better and beter.

If Geraldine Ferraro comes out for McCain and Palin, that will make 2 former Dem. VP candidates supporting the Republicans.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 12:22 PM   in response to: Laura21 in response to: Laura21
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Well a Gov. has to be constantly working to improve
the states economy.

But what has she accomplished?

Obama had to pick another
Senator because he is weak on foreign affairs.

"Weak" isn't the term I would use to describe the foreign policy of Obama. Did you listen to the speech last night?
MelFamy


Posts: 2,563
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 7:01 AM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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McCain did not, in my opinion, make a good choice insofar as picking a qualified successor. Bobby Jindal would have been a much better choice, as he has a proven track record in the areas of management and legislation. If looks and a compelling backstory are now the important qualifications for the office of president, and this statement covers both sides of the aisle, then I fear for this country's future.

Message was edited by: MelFamy
Waltraut


Posts: 2,951
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 8:07 AM   in response to: MelFamy in response to: MelFamy
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I am sorry, that he did not picked Mr. Romney. I would vote for that ticket in a flash. Now, I have to sit this one out ,again , for sure.

Have a blessed Sunday.
calan

Posts: 996
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 1, 2008 2:48 PM   in response to: Waltraut in response to: Waltraut
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Mitt was my pick as well. But the primary was pretty tense between these two.
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 9:46 AM   in response to: Laura21 in response to: Laura21
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I know wikipedia is necessarily the best source of facts, but just to give you a snap shot of who Palin is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin
linda013151


Posts: 14
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 7:35 AM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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I have never posted on this forum before, but I'm going to take a big leap of courage and give my opinion on Sarah Palin.
First let me say that I consider myself to be a conservative Republican (see single seeking profile). While I was not real happy with the candidacy of John McCain, I am appalled at his choice in a running mate. There is no way on earth I would cast a vote for this ticket.
I read Gramps' link to the wikipedia article on Sarah. She sounds like a wonderful lady. I applaud her views on abortion and gay marriage, they mirror my own. Can I be vice president? She has done a lot for the state of Alaska in a very short time, the state with the fewest people in the nation. Are we to trust her with only a little more then a decade of experience in the political arena with the office of president if something would happen to John McCain? Would she be an adequate Commander in Chief?? I think not.
It is wonderful that she chose to have her baby with Down's Syndrome. My first job was at Bethesda Lutheran Home in Watertown, Wisconsin. My late and husband and I adopted a son with developmental disabilities when he was three years old. We actually CHOSE our son. I know and love many children and adults with Down's Syndrome. It should make no difference in a voting booth for the second highest office in the nation. I personally believe she belongs home caring for her son, not leaving him for her older children to raise, then I would admire her even more as a mother.
Yes, I believe Sarah Palin is a good woman, a good person, even a beautiful woman. SHE DOES NOT, IMHO, belong in Washington at this point in time as our vice-president.
Thank-you all for listening to me rant. Now I'll go duck under my bed to hide from the flying missels.

Linda
Waltraut


Posts: 2,951
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 8:03 AM   in response to: linda013151 in response to: linda013151
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Linda, I am tipping my head to you. Thanks for your gracious post. You are right. I feel the same way.

We have to have our eyes and ears wide open, and listen to our inside.

I will sit with you in the corner . Sparks will be flying, because some people , on this board, think only one way . I said it many times and I will repeat it again: "Think as an AMERICAN, not as a Republican or Democrat. Think what is good for America. Right now, Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck sound better to me.

Thanks again for posting, you brought me out of my corner . I know, I know, some of you wish , I would stay there. :) :) :)

Take care and God bless.
ron in orlando


Posts: 2,132
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 8:19 AM   in response to: linda013151 in response to: linda013151
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If total experience in the political arena is your primary concern, then why would you vote for similar experience- or lack thereof- as PRESIDENT, rather than vice-president?

. And while she comes as a surprise, I think she sounds tough-as-nails, considering she called out members of her own party for illicit shenanigans.

This does assure one glass ceiling will be broken this election, at least. We will either have the first female vp, or the first black president.
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 3:32 PM   in response to: linda013151 in response to: linda013151
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Since Gov. Palin and her family will move to Washington, likely Mr. Palin will stay at home and care for the baby. Do you not believe the father can care for an infant equally as well as the mother?

Gov. Palin's decade of experience is several years more than Sen. Obama's experience.
senior citizen

Posts: 223
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 9:24 PM   in response to: linda013151 in response to: linda013151
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I have a "saying" taped to the wall above my computer; "Take care of Gods business and He will take care of yours." Sounds like this lady is one tough lady!! Read the account of Deborah in Judges 4 and 5
Gloria


Posts: 4,393
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 9:39 PM   in response to: senior citizen in response to: senior citizen
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Thank you for that reply.
I've always admired Deborah .
She not only gave advice,, but as I recall, a soldier named Barak refused to go into battle without her.
Mary0


Posts: 517
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 10:25 PM   in response to: linda013151 in response to: linda013151
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Welcome linda.
MelFamy


Posts: 2,563
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 7:55 AM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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I read the wiki that gramps recommended, and she does seem to have experience enough in state government positions to maybe handle the reins of power. I like that she beat Murkowski, as corrupt and venal a pol that ever lived. But I have to question her commitment to her goals, if she is so ready to give up her governorship two years into her first term. And she repeats the same obfuscations and half-truths about ANWAR that the oil companies want us to believe. Only 2000 acres will be impacted, indeed.
The Hawk

Posts: 28
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 9:57 AM   in response to: Laura21 in response to: Laura21
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Let the bashing of Gov. Sarah Palin begin.
Smiley1965


Posts: 8,211
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 10:10 AM   in response to: The Hawk in response to: The Hawk
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C'mon Hawk, don't be cynical! Surely no one will be mean and bash her? :)

I'm pretty uninformed about most of the issues, but just read the little blurb about her, and like her already!
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 10:15 AM   in response to: Smiley1965 in response to: Smiley1965
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Me, too, Smiley. I think this is one sharp lady.
Harriet


Posts: 4,195
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 10:26 AM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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Trouble is, this choice deflates McCain's harping about Obama's experience. Her overall credentials are even less impressive than Obama's, should the 70+ year old McCain become incapacitated.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 10:33 AM   in response to: Harriet in response to: Harriet
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On a personal level, the interesting thing about Palin is the fact she has a five-month old with Downs syndrome. She's got a tough few months ahead of her campaigning and balancing her repsonsibilities to her child, and I wish her the best in making that work.
Waltraut


Posts: 2,951
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 10:41 AM   in response to: Harriet in response to: Harriet
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But Harriet, she is a good looking 44 year old lady. I was shocked, when I heard his selection, but he must know best. At least I know now who I am not voting for.

I said my peace on this one, now I go back into my corner.

Mickey mouse sounds more and more good to me. :) :) :)

Have a blessed Labor Day Weekend. I am in the North Carolinas and I am having fun. I hope.
Harriet


Posts: 4,195
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 1:04 PM   in response to: Waltraut in response to: Waltraut
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Looks do not a president make!

So far, nothing I have read about her indicates anything negative except experience. Going from a small town soccer-mom mayor to governor in one step is quite a step - one that likely would not have been made without a backlash to ethics in that administration.

But face it - she has less experience in governing a nation with dangerous international situations OR this flailing economy than Obama all around. We elect John McCain and he suffers a debilitating stroke or worse. Are you really thinking she is qualified to step into the White House?

Like Spiro Agnew, or Dan Quayle, this unknown is unproven, either of which would have had the country shuddering had they risen to the Oval Office. Let's hope she spells better than Quayle.

No, this balances out and negates the experience factor McCain has been pounding.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 2:03 PM   in response to: Harriet in response to: Harriet
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I agree, Harriet. Ideologically, I disagree with Palin on most things. But she (and Bobby Jindal, too) are bright young leaders with good futures. It's just a cycle too soon for either of them to be on the national ticket.
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 2:59 PM   in response to: Waltraut in response to: Waltraut
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Now, Troudy, I know how you feel about women serving as President, and I'm assuming that means as VP, as well. Don't make a judgement until you read something about this lady. I think she is a great pick.
Waltraut


Posts: 2,951
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 2, 2008 5:36 PM   in response to: The Hawk in response to: The Hawk
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Harriet, Thank you. This was fun. I found out, that I am not so smart as I thought I am. :)

Have a blessed evening and a blessed tomorrow. Watch out for Hannah.
Waltraut


Posts: 2,951
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 2, 2008 5:37 PM   in response to: Waltraut in response to: Waltraut
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Bloops, this does not belong on this thread. I wonder what happened?

Getting old! :( :( :(
The Hawk

Posts: 28
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 10:44 AM   in response to: Laura21 in response to: Laura21
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Gov. Sarah Palin of Alaska has a best approval rating in the US.

Here is some background.
[b]The Most Popular Governor[/b]
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/013/851orcjq.asp

[i]The wipeout in the 2006 election left Republicans in such a state of dejection that they've overlooked the one shining victory in which a Republican star was born. The triumph came in Alaska where Sarah Palin, a politician of eye-popping integrity, was elected governor. She is now the most popular governor in America, with an approval rating in the 90s, and probably the most popular public official in any state.

Her rise is a great (and rare) story of how adherence to principle--especially to transparency and accountability in government--can produce political success. And by the way, Palin is a conservative who only last month vetoed 13 percent of the state's proposed budget for capital projects. The cuts, the Anchorage Daily News said, "may be the biggest single-year line-item veto total in state history."

As recently as last year, Palin (pronounced pale-in) was a political outcast. She resigned in January 2004 as head of the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission after complaining to the office of Governor Frank Murkowski and to state Attorney General Gregg Renkes about ethical violations by another commissioner, Randy Ruedrich, who was also Republican state chairman.

State law barred Palin from speaking out publicly about ethical violations and corruption. But she was vindicated later in 2004 when Ruedrich, who'd been reconfirmed as state chairman, agreed to pay a $12,000 fine for breaking state ethics laws. She became a hero in the eyes of the public and the press, and the bane of Republican leaders.

In 2005, she continued to take on the Republican establishment by joining Eric Croft, a Democrat, in lodging an ethics complaint against Renkes, who was not only attorney general but also a long-time adviser and campaign manager for Murkowski. The governor reprimanded Renkes and said the case was closed. It wasn't. Renkes resigned a few weeks later, and Palin was again hailed as a hero.[/i]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_vaH2BjVeA

Message was edited by: The Hawk

Lilly45


Posts: 29
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 12:35 PM   in response to: The Hawk in response to: The Hawk
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You got to LOVE HER already!!! I'm with her all the way.
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 2:59 PM   in response to: Laura21 in response to: Laura21
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Well here are a couple of negatives against Palin:

1) She is under investigation for the firing of the Superintentant of Public Safety in Alaska. Her sister was married to an Alaskan State Trooper and they went through a pretty messy divorce. Sarah got involved and wanted the State Trooper fired. The Superintendent refused, so she fired the Superintendan. This sort of sounds like how Gonzales fired some US attorneys because they would not do his beck and calling.

2) She is also under investigation for favoring a open pit gold mine in a sensitive environmental area. This is a problem in two ways, first, she tried to circumvent the necessary environmental impact study laws, and two, the open pit mine will be owned by a foreign company.

A third potential problem is her administration is being sued by the Federal Elections Commission for violating Native American's voting rights under the Federal Voting Rights Act.

Not sure if I were McCain that I would want to address these negatives.

Note to whomever--it matters not whether or not she has a Downs Syndrome child (I have seen pictures, the child is as cute as a button). This is a non issue in my mind.

When Obama made his selection of Biden he said he wanted someone who would be prepared to debate him on presidential decisions. How can Palin be prepared to debate McCain on the important matters?
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 3:02 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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[i]A third potential problem is her administration is being sued by the Federal Elections Commission for violating Native American's voting rights under the Federal Voting Rights Act.[/i]

That certainly seems unlikely since I understand her husband is a Native Eskimo.

But leave it to you, gramps, to immediately start looking for some dirt.
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 6:11 PM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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Read it and weep, Shar. Read it and weep.

This is from KFQD, a newsradio station in Alaska. Reported on 1 August 2008

[b]Judge orders Alaska to help Yup'ik voters[/b]


Submitted by Joe Campbell on Fri, 08/01/2008 - 08:44.

A federal judge is requiring state elections officials to provide Yup'ik-speaking voters in the Bethel area with election language help. U.S. District Judge Timothy Burgess issued the order late yesterday. The judge's ruling stems from a lawsuit filed last year alleging a failure to satisfy provisions of the 1965 federal Voting Rights Act. The ruling requires the state to provide language assistance, including trained poll workers who are bilingual in English and Yup'ik. Sample ballots will have to be written in Yup'ik. A glossary of election terms also written in Yup'ik will have to be provided. The judge also has ordered that local tribes be consulted to ensure the accuracy of Yup'ik translations. A Yup'ik language coordinator also will have to be provided. The court is requiring both pre-election and post-election reports to track the state's efforts to comply with the order. Jeffrey Mittman, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Alaska, says the upcoming August primary in the Bethel area will be closely watched for compliance.
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 6:17 PM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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Hey, I didn't post anything about Palin other than the Wikipedia article for over three hours after the announcement.

But the deal is, if I can start finding this stuff in just a few hours, why didn't McCain's staff find it before me?

There is a ton of other things as well--like her suit against the EPA for listing the polar bear as endangered.

She is really going to please those of us who prefer green (or white, in the case of Alaska) positions.
manitou8

Posts: 2,411
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 8:28 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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Gramps
Wow and the R's are gloating about stealing the news cycle today.
Well, I watched Obama last night. And then today as McCain stumbled in font of the teleprompter to introduce his Caribou hunter Running mate. There are more people in the county I live in than there are in the Whole State of Alaska. How many of you have actually ever been to Alaska? How many have seen a Caribou/Reindeer herd up close and in person? I Have. I am not impressed by either her gubernator experience, nor her downs syndrome Son.. Hmmmm Shar, shouldn't she stay home and take care of her special needs baby?
Well well we shall see how long this selection lasts... And hey, isn't she under investigation? Just like the senators and congressman from the state of Alaska?

oh well McCain certainly does appear to be desperate!
Isn't it a pity...

manitou8

Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 30, 2008 9:24 AM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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I think you will find, gramps, that it will all turn out to be much adue about nothing.
manitou8

Posts: 2,411
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 30, 2008 11:00 PM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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[i]
I think you will find, gramps, that it will all turn out to be much adue about nothing. [/i]

At least you hope so! Time will tell!


manitou8

senior citizen

Posts: 223
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 8:21 PM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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Shar M said "But leave it to you Gramps to immediately start looking for some dirt.

Isn't that the truth!! What a reputation Gramps has built for himself!!!

She sounds great to me!!!
manitou8

Posts: 2,411
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 8:35 PM   in response to: senior citizen in response to: senior citizen
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I have marked your words this day my Seņor fiend....
We shall see how far it goes.
It takes a worried man to sing a worried song
It takes a worried man to sing a worried song
I'm worried now,
but I won't be worried long!

Uff-da McCain is NOT a Leader!
He hasn't had a fresh idea since he was doing his guest stint in the Hanoi Hilton....
We shall see what we shall see!
What a sad and pathetic excuse for VP candidate...
Just wait till the federal investigators catch up with her! :-)


Blessings!

manitou8

Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 9:02 PM   in response to: senior citizen in response to: senior citizen
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[i]What a reputation Gramps has built for himself!!![/i]

Note to Senor: Thank you for outdoing me with honor (See Rom 12:10).

In a previous thread you asked several questions about the Lutheran understanding of healing and fasting. I gave you some straight up answers. I don't recall what your replies were.
evrysoul


Posts: 1,526
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 6:45 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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[u]http://www.adn.com/monegan/story/492964.html[/u]
[i]But Monegan says pressure came from those around Palin, including former Palin chief-of-staff Mike Tibbles, Department of Administration Commissioner Annette Kreitzer, and director of boards and commissions Frank Bailey.[/i]

Superintendent Monegan was an appointee and she had the right to fire him for any reason. Palin complained that Monegan thought they weren't proposing enough spending, and had overstepped the boundaries by asking for spending that hadn't been authorized for State Troopers, despite having 56 -58 trooper positions vacant. Monegan was offered another job which he turned down. Sarah Palin never asked for the trooper to be fired.

(BIL) Wooten"s reputation is questionable. And public officials can request protection. The complaints against him are that he made a worker's compensation claim, but was later seen on a snow machine, 911 tapes where Wooten refused to return their children, and upon investigations of other complaints, Wooten was found in violation of, broke the law, or both;

[i]- Wooten used a Taser on his stepson
  • He shot a moose without a permit, which is illegal. At the time he was married to McCann, who has a permit but never intended to shoot it herself.
  • He drank beer in his patrol car on one occasion.
  • He told others that his father-in-law - Palin's father, Chuck Heath - would "eat a f'ing lead bullet" if he helped his daughter get an attorney for the divorce.
Wooten's 10-day suspension was reduced to five after his union filed a grievance[/i]

2) - Ok...I'm confused..... [u]http://www.adn.com/front/story/306456.html[/u]
Biologists to return to original habitat: Top Stories | adn.com
[i]Her decision will move 38 biologists out of the Department of Natural Resources and will reverse one of former Gov. Frank Murkowski's most controversial acts.
Fishermen, some legislators and environmentalists praised the long-awaited decision, saying it will help restore some checks and balances to the state's permitting process for major development projects.[/i]

The last one about the FEC.....Alaska has over 20 native tongues and dialects, but they only provide services to those communities with a certain amount of residents with limited English proficiency. And those languages don't translate well because of Native American concepts - such as owning land or creating a will.

[i]There is one more language that is not an official language, but every Alaska Native knows one version or another of it: Village English, as it is known. It's developed individually in each village and uses either a twist on English or a patois of English and Alaska Native words as well as nonverbal communication. In St. Lawrence Island, for instance, villagers whistle at each other and can conduct a whole conversation using nothing but the high-pitched air coming out of their pursed lips.[/i]

Try translating that one to a ballot ....
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 29, 2008 8:46 PM   in response to: evrysoul in response to: evrysoul
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I am not saying Wooten is a saint. However Palin is under investigation for circumventing Alaska State Civil Service laws. The investigation should be completed by October--but I do not think I would want to go into half the election campaign trying to explain what happened.

What Palin is doing in the Pebble Mine scandal is by moving 38 biologists out of the DNR she is gutting the ability of the DNR to do the environmental study. People are just beginning to ask questions about what is going on with it. If it is developed the Pebble mine will impact the largest sockeye fishery in the world.

Then to, in an example of "I was for it than I was against it" (shades of John Kerry) why did Palin support the bridge to nowhere when it was first introduced by Senator Stevens then turned against it only after the make up of Congress changed after the November 2006 election. Oh sure, she now says she told congress she did not want it, but thats not what she told the Anchorage Daily News on October 22, 2006:

"5. Would you continue state funding for the proposed Knik Arm and Gravina Island bridges?

Yes. I would like to see Alaska's infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now--while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist."

Correction about the Polar Bears--I said Palin is suing the EPA. In fact she is suing Dick Kempthorne of the Department of Interior for listing the polar bear as endangered. Alaskans are divided over this one, but it is fodder for the environmentalists.

And, of course, she wants to DRILL, DRILL, DRILL for oil.
evrysoul


Posts: 1,526
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 30, 2008 4:59 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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Ya know...this Palin/Wooten thing is a gray area of sorts. While her family may need protection -it's wrong if she asks for it against an old foe out of retribution.
But say Harry Reid has an ex-soninlaw that is harassing his daughter to the point of bodily harm. If Reid does anything to thwart it, it looks like he's wielding the power of his office. If he doesn't - he looks inept. If Reid talks to officials, it looks like he's picking on him, and if officials step in, they'll say Reid told them to. And round and round we go. In either case it's harassment of a public official.

As to the bridge to nowhere, its was started in about 2003-2004 - before Palin was governor. Palin was in favor of it - the roads were already in progress and the funding appropriated. I can't see where anyone - Rep. or Dem. - once they were in office, would abruptly halt construction. Kennedy certainly made no effort towards the albatross "Big Dig" after it came under scrutiny.
But she did stop it. Katrina put the spotlight on excessive spending, and although she had the money, she cut it's funding and cut the amount of requested earmarks from $500 million to less than $200.They plan to continue to build the bridge, but the funding will have to come from somewhere else.

[i]And, of course, she wants to DRILL, DRILL, DRILL for oil. [/i]

And who doesn't when we have a shortages? What other alternative do we have?

Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 30, 2008 7:56 PM   in response to: evrysoul in response to: evrysoul
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[b]And who doesn't when we have a shortages? What other alternative do we have? [/b]

Several

First--conservation, by reducing our speed limit to 55 we will automatically see in increase in supplies by 17%. Increasing CAFE standards can increase said supplies by 20%

Second--yes drill on existing leased land--the oil companies have leases on 68 million acres that they have not even put a bit to, but this is only a bridge to newer technologies.

Third, develop those new technologies PDQ. We will need the same commitment to developing new technologies as we put into putting a man on the moon.
ron in orlando


Posts: 2,132
68 million unused acres? a little balance
Posted: Sep 2, 2008 4:36 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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OK, Gramps.

You said:

"...the oil companies have leases on 68 million acres that they have not even put a bit to..."

I have heard this bandied about for some time now. You are echoing what the dems have said, but your statement is not accurate.

This is from factcheck.org:

Unused Acres?

According to the U.S. Department of the Interior's Mineral Management Service, there are nearly 68 million acres of federal lands (onshore and off) that are part of non-producing leases as of fiscal year 2007. This is in contrast to 25.7 million acres of leased lands that are producing oil. So, there are 68 million acres of leased land on which companies aren't extracting oil, but Obama went too far when he said oil companies "haven't touched" them. As Bureau of Land Management Petroleum Engineer Bill Gewecke, who manages the onshore sites, told us, he "wouldn't say untouched, [I] would say undeveloped."

That's because these leased lands that don't contain productive drilling operations likely are not lying idle as Obama implies. There are a lot of steps and procedures involved in setting up a productive oil well on leased land, both onshore and off. The Bureau of Land Management's Web site lists the regulatory hurdles that need to be cleared as part of the larger five-step life cycle of a well. The path to setting up an offshore drilling operation is even longer, as shown in a large flow chart developed by the MMS.

And there is a lot of activity occurring on leased lands that does not qualify as "production." For 2006, the BLM reported that there were 77,257 productive holes onshore in the U.S. Beyond that, there were 6,738 applications for drilling permits, 4,708 holes in which companies had begun drilling and 3,693 where drilling had ended among onshore lands. That's a total of more than 15,000 holes that were being proposed, started or finished that do not count as "productive" holes. And that doesn't even include holes that might have been continually drilled throughout the year for exploratory reasons.

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/are_the_democrats_correct_in_stating_that.html

As the article says, non-producing does NOT equate with "have not even put a bit into".

Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: 68 million unused acres? a little balance
Posted: Sep 2, 2008 4:50 PM   in response to: ron in orlando in response to: ron in orlando
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OK, Gramps.

You said:

"...the oil companies have leases on 68 million acres
that they have not even put a bit to..."

I have heard this bandied about for some time now.
You are echoing what the dems have said, but your
statement is not accurate.


Of course, the very same article you cite also points out that the notion that removing the ban on offshore drilling could produce oil in as little as 18 months (as McCain has said) is bunk. Every offshore drilling rig available is reserved for the next five years, and clearing the various regulatory hurdles will probably take at least two years in and of itself. Even the DoE says lifting the drilling ban likely won't produce any noticable amount of oil until 2017.
ron in orlando


Posts: 2,132
Re: 68 million unused acres? a little balance
Posted: Sep 2, 2008 5:52 PM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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I am glad you mentioned those things, Sean. That adds to the deception that the "unused 69 million acres" prepetrates. How can it be used if the drilling rigs are spoken for for 5 years?

But my point was about the decpetion of the number 68 million. And the link supports the inaccuracy of the number.

Message was edited by: ron in orlando
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: 68 million unused acres? a little balance
Posted: Sep 2, 2008 5:57 PM   in response to: ron in orlando in response to: ron in orlando
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Note, Ron I said there are 68 million acres that oil companies have yet [b]to put a bit to[/b]. That does not mean untouched. Of course, I know drilling for oil is a multi-step process, just as the article says. What I say does not contradict the article. Let's develop those fields before we open up other leases--that is all I am saying.
ron in orlando


Posts: 2,132
Re: 68 million unused acres? a little balance
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 4:49 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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Gramps, if you read the article thoroughly, you will see that some of those 68 million acres HAVE had a bit put to them.

MY point is that the people against drilling use these sorts of exaggerated and/or misleading statistic to buttress their arguments.

I say honesty in stats is the best policy.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: 68 million unused acres? a little balance
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 8:17 AM   in response to: ron in orlando in response to: ron in orlando
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I am glad you mentioned those things, Sean. That adds
to the deception that the "unused 69 million acres"
prepetrates. How can it be used if the drilling rigs
are spoken for for 5 years?

I would argue it's not deceptive -- certainly within the bounds of usual political puffery. It points to the fact that there is a whole lot of area that is available for drilling today that isn't being used. So maybe this notion that we have to open up other areas to drill in (that they won't be able to touch in the next five years, either) is a bit of a canard.

Message was edited by: Sean
ron in orlando


Posts: 2,132
Re: 68 million unused acres? a little balance
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 4:52 PM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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I would say that deliberately misusing the statistic of 68 million acres is misleading to the point that OTHER stats must be scrutinized as well, and taken with a grain of salt.

When citing stats such as these to support a position, there should be no room for 'political puffery' on any side. It should not be tolerated.
perelandra


Posts: 3,193
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 9:46 PM   in response to: evrysoul in response to: evrysoul
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[i]And, of course, she wants to DRILL, DRILL, DRILL
for oil. [/i]

And who doesn't when we have a shortages? What other
alternative do we have?


We don't actually have a shortage...what we have is higher prices, and those prices are still cheaper than what they're paying in Europe. If you want to see a shortage, go to Haiti, where there isn't enough gasoline available to get trucks running to move tons of foreign aid from the airport to outlying areas. And this is on an island smaller than my home state!
Alternatives? Like Gramps said, bring back the double nickel (as a pedestrian, I am sooo in favor of that one! :) ). Drive less, and plan your trips to encompass all your errands. Walk and bike more. Carpool. And yes, inflate your tires properly!
All these measures are doable for most drivers, and they do create significant savings.
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 3:01 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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Every day you hear more negatives about Palin

Like the time when, as mayor, she asked the town librarian how she could go about getting some books banned.

Then just a few Sundays ago she got up at her church and said we were doing the Lord's work in Iraq. I imagine that will go over well with the Muslim voting constiuency (actually means more votes for Obama). Excuse me, but Iraq is an unjustified war.

Also it is very interesting that she has spoken twice to the Alaskan Independence Party, a party that wants Alaska to secede from the United States.
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 3:17 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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I think you have been listening to the liberal media, gramps. Listening to them today leads me to believe the Democrats are very, very nervous.
Smiley1965


Posts: 8,211
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 3:28 PM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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For all the negatives people are slinging, there's just as many that think she's pretty awesome.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/2008/Sep/20080902News003.asp
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 3:58 PM   in response to: Smiley1965 in response to: Smiley1965
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Including me.
senior citizen

Posts: 223
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 4:06 PM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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AND ME!!!
Mary0


Posts: 517
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 5:22 PM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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And me, so far! I think the desperation of the media trashing their daughter may in the end help the McCain/Palin ticket.
manitou8

Posts: 2,411
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 6:28 PM   in response to: Mary0 in response to: Mary0
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Oh well then that settles it Maryo, what the heck was I thinking?
it's not her daughter its the total lack of vetting, you need more interviews to get a job at McDonald's slinging french Fries than Sarah Palin had fro VP! That is scary!

She Is unknown and Inexperienced!

manitou8

Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 7:59 PM   in response to: Mary0 in response to: Mary0
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Mary

I don't see the media trashing her daughter. They just pointed out she is five months pregnant. Obama came out and said he was not going to make an issue of it because, after all, he was the son of a teenage mother. He even went so far as to say that if he hears of anyone in his campaign saying [u]anything[/u] about it, they will be personally fired by him.

What the media has talked about is how Palin's daughter's pregnancy has raised questions about abstinence only sex education, and whether we as a nation are preparing our children to have children of their own. They have also talked about how teenagers are being given poor examples when they see celebrities having children while unmarried.

Palin's daughter's pregnancy is a non issue. But Abstinence Only Sex Education; pregnancies without marriage; and properly preparing children for adult responsibilities are legitimate issues.

I pray the daughter will have a healthy baby and she and her boyfriend will be good parents to their child. I see they are getting married. May God also bless their union.
Mary0


Posts: 517
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 9:01 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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Yes, they have Gramps. Perhaps I am watching and hearing different things than you. I don't have cable or satelite. All of the local news on TV and radio and the Today show, etc. talked constantly about her daughter being pregnant and that Palin may not be able to handle Vice Presidency because she has a disabled infant, 5 children and now she will be a grandmother to her 17 year old daughter's child and how that child will need her help. It was actually almost humorous to see these previously 'progressive' women now questioning Palin being able to be a working mother, when they themselves had been. Also would she really be able to take the man's position of working emotionally as her husband helped care for the baby. Lots of talk about it. I didn't hear very much on real issue problems. They even had a group of some stay at home moms talking about her not being able to give quality care to her children and that she put her daughter in this position by not turning down the nomination. Palin didn't do that. The media is doing it. They are creating division among women. I thought we had gone beyond that. They are helping to seal up the cracks in the ceiling that Hillary had broken.

I did hear Obama saying it wasn't an issue, etc.like you said and also Biden say her daughter should be off limits.

I do agree with you that her daughter's pregnancy should be a non issue. I also pray God will bless the young couple and their child.
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 9:42 PM   in response to: Mary0 in response to: Mary0
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Mary

I watch the Today Show in the morning as I get up--at least the first half hour. My list was what the Today show has talked about since it was announced the daughter was pregnant. As I commute to work my first 40 minutes I listen to NPR--again no comment has been made about Palin being a working mother. The next 40 minutes I listen to Air America (hey, I am a liberal--and proud of it actually more of a centrist) at no time have they made the pregnancy of the daughter an issue, nor have they made Palin being a working mother an issue. At night I usually listen to a book on tape going home.
Mary0


Posts: 517
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 10:39 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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I disagree. The Today show lasts alot longer than a half hour and there are more things throughout. And the mother's group were not on Today or Good Morning America but the other morning news show, I believe it is called The Early Show. I don't watch that one very often. Also local radio news. I don't listen to NPR or Air America. I'm getting older but I didn't imagine it. : )
Glad it isn't an issue with you. Wow, 80 minutes to commute to work!
Mary
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 10:05 AM   in response to: Mary0 in response to: Mary0
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[i]Wow, 80 minutes to commute to work! [/i]

Tell me about it. The actual mileage between my front door to the parking lot of my work is 76 miles. A big reason why I got a hybrid.

Try NPR, I think you will be surprised.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 8:11 AM   in response to: Mary0 in response to: Mary0
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I didn't hear very
much on real issue problems.

Well, given that none of the speakers at the RNC have talked about issues, either, what's your complaint?

They even had a group
of some stay at home moms talking about her not being
able to give quality care to her children and that
she put her daughter in this position by not turning
down the nomination. Palin didn't do that. The
media is doing it.

Note -- it's not Democrats attacking Palin on the motherhood issue.

I did hear Obama saying it wasn't an issue, etc.like
you said and also Biden say her daughter should be
off limits.

Note -- it's not Democrats attacking Palin on the motherhood issue.

I would say, though, that if Sarah Palin wants her family to be off limits, she should stop using them as political pawns. You can't tell the media to lay off Bristol while you're using Track to tug at people's heartstrings.

Message was edited by: Sean
Mary0


Posts: 517
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 12:46 PM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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I didn't hear very
much on real issue problems.

Well, given that none of the speakers at the RNC have
talked about issues, either, what's your complaint?


Sean, my post was about right after Palin was announced and before the RNC last night how the media just kept talking about her pregnant daughter and trying to make that an issue.

They even had a group
of some stay at home moms talking about her not
being
able to give quality care to her children and that
she put her daughter in this position by not
turning
down the nomination. Palin didn't do that. The
media is doing it.

Note -- it's not Democrats attacking Palin on the
motherhood issue.

I did hear Obama saying it wasn't an issue,
etc.like
you said and also Biden say her daughter should be
off limits.

Note -- it's not Democrats attacking Palin on the
motherhood issue.


I did not say the Democrats were doing it in my posting, I said the media. I also agreed with Gramps that Obama and Biden did not to it. You read things into my posting I didn't say.

I would say, though, that if Sarah Palin wants her
family to be off limits, she should stop using them
as political pawns. You can't tell the media to lay
off Bristol while you're using Track to tug at
people's heartstrings.

She only introduced her family Sean. That was proper. Obama has also. He even let the media in at a birthday party. I still say they should leave the children out of it.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 12:54 PM   in response to: Mary0 in response to: Mary0
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She only introduced her family Sean. That was
proper. Obama has also. He even let the media in at
a birthday party. I still say they should leave the
children out of it.

Joe Biden has a son going to Iraq, too. He didn't make it part of his convention speech.
Mary0


Posts: 517
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 1:05 PM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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That was his choice.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 1:08 PM   in response to: Mary0 in response to: Mary0
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Sure, it was. But you can't have it both ways. If you are Sarah Palin, you can't pick and choose which kids are off limits or not. If she wants to politicize her son's service, fine, but don't get mad if people try to politicize your daughter's pregnancy.
Mary0


Posts: 517
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 1:20 PM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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Sure, it was. But you can't have it both ways. If
you are Sarah Palin, you can't pick and choose which
kids are off limits or not. If she wants to
politicize her son's service, fine, but don't get mad
if people try to politicize your daughter's pregnancy.

Same with the birthday party at the Obamas. He shouldn't have had it both ways, but did. Even though he did, that doesn't give the media the right to trash them either just to get to him. They are kids. I don't see where she politicized his going to Iraq. She is proud of her son serving his country and as a parent said so. I'm sure the media would not like it if someone did the same to their children when they had problems.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 1:42 PM   in response to: Mary0 in response to: Mary0
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Even
though he did, that doesn't give the media the right
to trash them either just to get to him. They are
kids.

No one is trashing Bristol Palin. If anything, they are pointing out the hypocrisy of Sarah Palin, who wants us to respect the choice they made, but doesn't want to give choices to any other family in the same circumstance. The same lady who vetoed funding for unwed mothers in Alaska. The same lady who keeps her crib in her office at work so she can breastfeed but doesn't support programs for poor women to have access to childcare or even ensuring that their children have access to health care.

I don't see where she politicized his going to
Iraq. She is proud of her son serving his country
and as a parent said so. I'm sure the media would
not like it if someone did the same to their children
when they had problems.

Palin consistently brings up September 11 in relation to ther son -- he enlisted on 9/11/07, he ships out on 9/11/08. You can pretend she's not politicizing it if you want. And again, you can't have it both ways. You can't say "talk about this one but not that one". It doesn't work that way.
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 2:29 PM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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The same lady who said special needs mothers will have someone in the White House is the same lady who actually cut funding for special needs children in her last state budget.
Mary0


Posts: 517
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 2:33 PM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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No one is trashing Bristol Palin. If anything, they
are pointing out the hypocrisy of Sarah Palin, who
wants us to respect the choice they made, but doesn't
want to give choices to any other family in the same
circumstance.

No one should have the choice to take another's life. We'll never agree on that one.

The same lady who vetoed funding for
unwed mothers in Alaska. The same lady who keeps her
crib in her office at work so she can breastfeed but
doesn't support programs for poor women to have
access to childcare or even ensuring that their
children have access to health care.

Are you just generalizing her position on that as has been done before to anyone that doesn't support a certain type of health care? Or did she vote for something specific? If you are talking about a policy she may have vetoed, as someone else said on the board, when you attach things to a bill sometimes they have to be vetoed for a better bill. Just because someone may not be for a type of health care you are for does not mean they are against care for the poor. Also as inidividuals no one knows how someone else helps the poor in their own lives. Just because they may not believe in doing it through the government in a certain way that you agree with doesn't mean they are against the poor. But then, in her case, I don't know enough about her yet to know where she may stand on some things. I'm just not jumping to conclusions yet.

I don't see where she politicized his going to
Iraq. She is proud of her son serving his country
and as a parent said so. I'm sure the media would
not like it if someone did the same to their
children
when they had problems.

Palin consistently brings up September 11 in relation
to ther son -- he enlisted on 9/11/07, he ships out
on 9/11/08. You can pretend she's not politicizing
it if you want. And again, you can't have it both
ways. You can't say "talk about this one but not
that one". It doesn't work that way.


Is this 'consistently' since she was nominated a few days ago? Perhaps since one child was already 'talked' about, she felt compelled to say something nice about something happening in her family. Who really knows, or does it really matter that she mentioned him going to Iraq? Seems like a little unimportant thing to be upset about.
It is surprising to me that someone would stand up for the media in this instance. But that is your right too.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 2:52 PM   in response to: Mary0 in response to: Mary0
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If you are talking about a
policy she may have vetoed, as someone else said on
the board, when you attach things to a bill sometimes
they have to be vetoed for a better bill.

Wrong. Palin used the line-item veto to specifically go after this program.

Just
because someone may not be for a type of health care
you are for does not mean they are against care for
the poor.

OK. Then please explain how Sarah Palin would help the poor to get access to health care. Please tell me what Sarah Palin has done to do such a thing in her past?

It is surprising to me that someone would stand up
for the media in this instance. But that is your
right too.

I'm all for the media playing it straight. There are ample questions about Sarah Palin, and they deserve to be answered. Republicans are trying to cower the media into giving Palin (just like McCain) a free pass.
Mary0


Posts: 517
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 3:35 PM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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Wrong. Palin used the line-item veto to specifically
go after this program.
OK. Then please explain how Sarah Palin would help
the poor to get access to health care. Please tell
me what Sarah Palin has done to do such a thing in
her past?
I believe I said tht I didn't know her well enough to know where she stands on some things and I just wasn't jumping to conclusions. I know if I were cutting a budget I may need to cut down alot of things I didn't want to cut. That is reality.

It is surprising to me that someone would stand up
for the media in this instance. But that is your
right too.
I'm all for the media playing it straight. There are
ample questions about Sarah Palin, and they deserve
to be answered. Republicans are trying to cower the
media into giving Palin (just like McCain) a free
pass.

They could concentrate on the firing of her sister's x husband if they want to do something newsworthy.
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 3:58 PM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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And what was the reason for it? Was there a similar program doing the same thing? Was this program ineffective? I bet there's another side to this story, but we'll never hear it.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 4:26 PM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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Well, perhaps if she would sit down for an interview with somebody other than [i]People[/i], she could tell us her rationale for it.

Barack Obama is going on with Billo tonight, so maybe Palin would like to have a sitdown with Olbermann.
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 6:28 PM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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No one in their right mind would sit down with Olbermann.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 5, 2008 8:08 AM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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Obama went to Fox News, and faced a hostile questioner.

If McCain and Palin aren't brave enough to sit down with Olbermann, how can they stand up to the terrorists?
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 5, 2008 8:28 AM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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why would anyone deliberately sit down and let themselves be questioned by a lunatic? O'Reilly doesn't begin to compare with Olbermann. Although I didn't see the interview, I bet O'Reilly was the soul of courtesy.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 5, 2008 8:33 AM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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Given that Olbermann hasn't had to pay anybody off for sexual harassment, I'd be careful about calling him a lunatic, while giving O'Reilly a pass. I'd also point out that Olbermann doesn't attempt to hide his leanings behind some hackneyed "no spin" veneer.
manitou8

Posts: 2,411
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 1:45 PM   in response to: Mary0 in response to: Mary0
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Oh wow why didn't I think of that?
Ofcourse, Maryo you are right-on thanks for that...
Oh my now I gotta vote for them... :-)

Deep in my heart I know that you, Ron and Gary are EXTREMELY Right!

Blessings

manitou8

Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 4:53 PM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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There you go again, Shar. Typical Republican trick, when the news is not good, blame the media and the "angry left" (I lost count how many times the speakers on the RNC said that last night.

No, Shar, I am getting my information from the Spokesman Review--which is one of the most conservative papers in the country.

But, yes, I am nervous at the thought of the potential of having such a person a heart beat away from the Presidency. Do you know that a healthy male at age 72 has only 1/3 chance of seeing age 80? That means there is--at best--a 2/3 chance of Palin taking the reigns within the next eight years. Sorry, I am not willing to give this woman a chance.
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 4:59 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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Gramps, you're looking waaaay ahead. I'm only concerned about the next four years. I'm not even planning on who I'll vote for four years from now.
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 6:10 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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Gramps, most of the issues I have heard raised are totally without substance, i.e., her pregnant daughter, whether she can be a good mother to her family while she's holding office, etc. Very few valid points have been raised and I think we will have an adequate response to those, although I know they will never satisfy you.
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 8:06 PM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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You know, I have often wondered how men can be good fathers while holding the office of President, or Vice President myself.

I did like Palin's example of firing the state chef because she felt it was more important for her kids to get used to macaroni and cheese than to expect to be served hand and foot once she is out of office. Besides, three of her kids are old enough to do some things around the house (even though her son will soon be going to Iraq). I imagine even the six year old has some chores she is expected to do.

And I respect Palin for having her DS baby. I have worked with DS people before. I have always found them kind, eager to please, and really pretty smart in their own ways.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 8:05 AM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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Gramps, most of the issues I have heard raised are
totally without substance, i.e., her pregnant
daughter, whether she can be a good mother to her
family while she's holding office, etc.

Can someone give me a specific name of a Democrat who has argued Sarah Palin can't be a good mother to her family while holding the VP office? The only person who I've actually heard make that argument was Dr. Laura, and she ain't exactly a liberal.
The Hawk

Posts: 28
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 8:11 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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[b]But, yes, I am nervous at the thought of the potential of having such a person a heart beat away from the Presidency.[/b]

In the post, Experience factor, is it a misnomer, did you not agree with MelFamy: " Candidates' previous experiences are important only for purposes of studying how they may have fared against adversity and overwhelming odds to accomplish some goal. Hopefully, that trait will follow them to the Presidential posting."

Than why are you not nervous about Obama inexperience. If elected Obama will be President the first day.

Message was edited by: The Hawk
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 8:39 PM   in response to: The Hawk in response to: The Hawk
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Obama inexperienced?

With 14 years of legislative experience?

Being a constitutional lawyer?

Being a professor of law?

Having lived in Indonesia? Having family contacts in Kenya?

Having been a community organizer? And still organizing assistence for the victims of Hurricanes?

Having been able to force the presidents hand in committing to troop withdrawals in Iraq?

Having pointed out the need for more involvment in Afganistan?

Having gone through a grueling candidacy process leading up to his nomination?

Having shown how he can make a wise choice for VP?

No I will take him over someone who was the president of the PTA; mayor of a small town; governor of a state where there are more caribou than people, and commander in chief (in name only) of the a national guard more known for its firefighting responsibilities.
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 10:45 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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Just what does a community organizer do, gramps? And how many executive decision does one have to make as a professor or legislator? Not many, I would guess.
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 10:20 AM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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Glad you asked, Shar

This is from [i]The Nation[/i], April3, 2007

Obama worked as an organizer at a time when Harold Washington's election as mayor stirred his hopes and dreams, as well as those of blacks and progressives in the city. Interviews with people who worked with him during that time elicited few complaints--virtually everyone described him in glowing terms, including dedicated, hard-working, dependable, intelligent, inspiring, a good listener, confident but self-effacing. They expressed admiration for him as an organizer who trained strong community leaders while keeping himself in the background and as a strategist who could turn general problems into specific, winnable issues. Loretta Augustine-Herron, a member of the DCP board that hired him, remembers him as someone who always followed the high road. "You've got to do it right," she recalls him insisting. "Be open with the issues. Include the community instead of going behind the community's back--and he would include people we didn't like sometimes. You've got to bring people together. If you exclude people, you're only weakening yourself. If you meet behind doors and make decisions for them, they'll never take ownership of the issue."

Obama worked in the organizing tradition of Saul Alinsky, who made Chicago the birthplace of modern community organizing, as translated through the Gamaliel Foundation, one of several networks of faith-based organizing. Often by confronting officials with insistent citizens--rather than exploiting personal connections, as traditional black Democrats proposed--Obama and DCP protected community interests regarding landfills and helped win employment training services, playgrounds, after-school programs, school reforms and other public amenities.

One day a resident at Altgeld Gardens, a geographically isolated public housing project surrounded by waste sites, brought a notice about planned removal of asbestos from the project manager's office. Obama organized the community to find out if there was asbestos in their apartments. They persisted as officials lied and delayed, then took a bus--with far fewer people than Obama had anticipated--to challenge authorities downtown. Ultimately, the city was forced to test all the apartments and eventually begin cleaning them up.

----

Just to pick up on Obama's comment: "You've got to bring people together. If you exclude people, you're only weakening yourself." Do you know how many African American delegates are at the RNC? 38. That is 60% less than 2004. And there are not that many people of other colors. What I saw last night during Palin's speech was a see of white and mostly gray haired people. Why have the Republicans given up on the minority vote? Why aren't the Republicans attracting the youth? All I heard last night was trash talk against minorities.

When close elections actually stand or fall on ethnic votes, I do not think the Republicans can afford to give up the African American vote; the Hispanic vote; the Muslim vote; or even the homosexual vote.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 10:29 AM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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Just what does a community organizer do, gramps?

Aren't the very people sitting in the convention hall community organizers? Isn't that what political parties are made up of -- people who try to organize members of the community to do something? Is it really so dishonorable to do so?

How many executive decisions has John McCain made?

But if you want to talk about Sarah Palin's executive record, let's do so. Let's talk about the decisions she made as mayor. Where would you like to begin?

I have a few suggestions. Let's start with her leaving Wasilla with a $20 million debt (the town had precisely zero debt when she took over as mayor) -- or $2,200 per Wasillian. Or her attempts to purge much of the city staff after her election of mayor. Or her decision to hire a city manager to take over many of the day-to-day repsonsibilities of the mayor. Or her attempt to ban books at the library.
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 2:31 PM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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Or her record as governor?

[i]When presumptive Republican presidential nominee John McCain introduced Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin as his running mate last Friday, the Arizona senator emphasized her role as the commander in chief of the Alaska National Guard.

Later, when questions were raised about Palin's lack of experience in national and international affairs, the McCain campaign pointed again to her military command experience as governor. Some reporters have tried to follow up.

"Can you tell me one decision that she made as commander in chief of the Alaska National Guard?" CNN journalist Campbell Brown asked Monday while interviewing McCain campaign spokesman Tucker Bounds. "Just one?"

Bounds couldn't, because Palin has never personally ordered the state guard to do anything.[/i]

http://www.adn.com/news/alaska/story/514967.html
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 3:29 PM   in response to: Sean in response to: Sean
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Or how about this?

[i]The McCain campaign's comparisons between Obama's years as a community organizer and Palin's as mayor also serves as an attempt by the McCain campaign to establish a biographical equivalence between two different life stages gone through by candidates close in age and, perhaps, to write his time representing a populous Chicago state senate district out of the picture. After all, Obama was an organizer from roughly age 24 to 26 -- after he graduated from Columbia University but before he went to Harvard Law School -- and Palin, at that age, was working as a television sports broadcaster.

If Palin's two terms as mayor are chronologically equivalent to anything in Obama's biography, it is to his eight years in the Illinois State Senate, which occupied roughly the same stretch in his late 30s and early 40s as did her time running Wasilla.

That, however, is comparison that shapes up a bit differently. Wasilla's population during Palin's tenure as mayor was roughly 5,000; Obama's Senate district held about 200,000 constituents, or about 40 times as many as Palin's Wasilla.

Slightly more than 1,000 people voted in Palin's reelection contest in 1999, which she won 826-255. Slightly more than 50,000 voted in Obama's 1998 reelection, which he won with about 45,000 votes.[/i]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/04/about_those_community_organizi.html?hpid=topnews
Sean


Posts: 6,512
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 5, 2008 8:55 AM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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Just what does a community organizer do, gramps?

Heard a good line yesterday.

Jesus was a community organizer. Pilate was a governor.
Gary Whitney

Posts: 1,438
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 5:35 AM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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Take a look at the things she has accomplished in the two years as govenor. I would stack them up against the talk of doing things that Obama has done.
Smiley1965


Posts: 8,211
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 7:11 AM   in response to: Gary Whitney in response to: Gary Whitney
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Last night was the first time I've ever watched a DNC or RNC speech. Although I kept dozing off, as it was way past bedtime, I was very impressed by her speech. And her little daughter licking her hand so she could smooth down the baby's hair on national TV!
Waltraut


Posts: 2,951
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 8:03 AM   in response to: Smiley1965 in response to: Smiley1965
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Dear Smiley, I am glad some one else, besides me, noticed that little girl. She sure was cute. They showed her a few times. :) The whole family looked so nice.

Have a blessed day.
Waltraut


Posts: 2,951
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 7:56 AM   in response to: Gary Whitney in response to: Gary Whitney
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I was impressed too, but I cannot see her in talks with Putin or any one of the tough guys.

BTW. Some of you sound a little bit prejudices , when you talk about Senator Obama.

I myself have no idea who I am voting for. My choice , right now, would be the same, as I mentioned a while back.

Let's see what the next few month bring. I just hope, that both side stay away from mud slinging. She sure did not talked nice about Senator Obama. He took her side, and told every one that the children of a candidate should be off limits. I was glad, to see her daughter with her Fiance there.

My wish always was, to visit Alaska, before I depart this earth. But I changed my mind.

Have a blessed day.
MelFamy


Posts: 2,563
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 5, 2008 9:28 AM   in response to: Waltraut in response to: Waltraut
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Take it from one who lived there, in a town that makes Wasilla look like Metropolis. You will never regret going to Alaska. The scenery is magnificent, the natives friendly, and the wildlife is everywhere. Just be sure to take mosquito repellent along, at least a gallon. Alaskan mosquitoes are the size of hummingbirds, and a dozen can carry off a small child.

Message was edited by: MelFamy
Shar M


Posts: 15,882
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 5, 2008 9:55 AM   in response to: MelFamy in response to: MelFamy
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The film footage they showed was beautiful. We are planning a trip next July. I can hardly wait.
MelFamy


Posts: 2,563
Re: Alaska Trip
Posted: Sep 5, 2008 10:18 AM   in response to: Shar M in response to: Shar M
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If you aren't a tree-hugging, save-the-whales, eco-activist now, you will be before the trip is over. Some things need to be left alone. and savored for their natural selves.
Finn


Posts: 2,615
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Aug 31, 2008 1:50 PM   in response to: Laura21 in response to: Laura21
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Perhaps Palin's nomination was meant to resonate in a certain way with the electorate. A lot of people (not all, but a lot) have this idea in their head that they know just what Washington needs and if THEY were president they would get in there and clear out the deadwood and make a clean sweep and restore sanity and right all the wrongs and blah blah blah.

Gov. Palin is meant to be comprehended as a sort of, uh, embodiment, of you. Sure, she's a governor, but she's about as far away from Washington as you can get. And she's a hockey mom who dresses out her own game.

The idea is that only someone who is unqualified to be president can truly be qualified, on account of not having been infected by the business-as-usual back-slapping glad-handing BS of Washington. You know, like in Mr. Smith Goes to Washington (1939!) with good ol' Jimmy Stewart.

Yeah, I'll draw to an inside straight every time, if we're playing nickel ante, quarter limit. But this ain't that.

Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 1, 2008 5:52 PM   in response to: Finn in response to: Finn
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Seems like we voted for govenors to become Presidents before, two Republican and one Democrat. One of those Republicans and the Democrat did not prove to be very good Presidents. I am sorry, I cannot give Palin four years for on the job training. Chances are she may be called up to the first string before those four years are up.
Gramps


Posts: 14,433
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 1, 2008 6:19 PM   in response to: Gramps in response to: Gramps
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Correction, we have had four governors become President in the last 40 years, two Democrats and two Republicans. One of the Democrats and one of the Republicans did not do very well. Do we want to risk doing that again with another governor? I know I don't.
Harriet


Posts: 4,195
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 3, 2008 12:12 PM   in response to: Laura21 in response to: Laura21
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Waltraut


Posts: 2,951
Re: McCain's Veep choice Announcement
Posted: Sep 4, 2008 8:01 AM   in response to: Harriet in response to: Harriet
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Very interesting. Thanks for posting this.

Have a great day.